AI in the Spotlight: Hollywood Stars, Music Icons and the Former Prime Minister of Denmark weigh in on the use and regulation of AI in media and entertainment
Fran Drescher, Jon Bon Jovi, Kit Harington, Kevin Costner, Jamie Campbell-Bower, Don McLean, Luke Wilson, Sienna Miller, Isabelle Fuhrman, Sam Worthington and Helle Thorning-Schmidt discuss their views on AI, deepfakes and regulations with Georgina Lara Booth.
The use and regulation of Artificial Intelligence (AI) is a widely publicized topic that has made headlines worldwide in the past year — especially in the context of the Hollywood film industry. In 2023, the American labour union for actors and performers, SAG-AFTRA, made Hollywood history for having been the longest strike that they have ever done. The strike lasted from July until November 2023 due to contractual disputes with production companies and streaming platforms over a range of issues, which included the union’s concerns over AI being used to duplicate the likeness of actors that raises issues surrounding compensation and creative ownership for actors.
In March 2024, The AI Act was passed, which imposes a set of rules for technology companies operating in the EU, bans certain uses of AI tools — such as uses that threaten citizens’ rights — and puts requirements for transparency on developers, which could lead to fines for companies that do not comply.
Georgina Lara Booth spoke with Hollywood stars, music icons and public figures about their views on the use of AI and whether they think it should be regulated.
Fran Drescher — President of SAG-AFTRA and Emmy Award-Winning TV Sitcom Star of ‘The Nanny’.
In 2023, SAG-AFTRA had the longest strike in history, in part due to concerns over the use of AI in the film industry. What do you think of the deal that you finally ended up with to end the strike?
Fran Drescher: “I think it’s monumental and it has achieved more than certainly the opposition ever thought they would give us and I think that there are blank pages after blank pages after blank pages that’s are now filled in with legal language that protects our members with regulations that never existed before. There’s a new stream of revenue that never existed. Before they didn’t see that coming. They didn’t want to do that at all and for 35 days of negotiations. They just kept saying ‘no’ and we kept saying ‘listen, it’s not going away’ and they finally had to figure out a way to make us agree to something that would work for them, but more importantly work for us and that was, you know, the bonus streaming model and compensation and that was a a very big concession that they made in terms of leaning into what we absolutely had to have and they finally recognized that. They came up with their own version of a new stream of revenue and we had to fix it, so that it worked better for us too, besides just being more money, it had to be able to throw a wider net, so more people could benefit from it and what ultimately was agreed upon. We broke patterns which had never been done before and that was monumental, because we couldn’t accept the minimum that the DGA and the WGA were willing to accept. It was not an option. They knew that and they decided we got to break pattern. It doesn’t matter what they did, you know, and even our sister unions were saying it’s okay and let’s resolve this and give it to them, because the difference in what our minimums are as compared to what their minimums are is so much less. It makes a significant difference in how people can even make a living and put food on the table, so it was very important that we raise the minimums and now in the first year, the performers are going to get over 11% compounded, which puts them over inflation. We had zero AI protections, none, and now they must get consent and compensation, so when an employer wants to hire somebody, they have to tell them in advance: ‘we’re going to need you to do AI for this job, this is the specific of why we need the AI and then it’s with the understanding that they can never use it again for any other job unless they come back to you and once again ask for consent and compensation. That is an enormous hurdle in the protections for our members that they are going to immediately start to feel. Also, you know, for over 20 years we’ve been trying to get performance capture recognized as a specialization. We got it now and that’s going to help not only actors, but dancers and stunt people. Next time, we’ll get facial capture and motion capture, but we got performance capture and now we can build on it. That was a blank page.”
Do you think that the strike is truly over or do you think that there will likely be another strike that could happen again with all of the developments going on with AI and everything else impacting the film industry?
Fran Drescher: “Of course, you know, it all depends. I mean, hopefully we are in a different place where we can effectively negotiate with them from a position of strength and fearlessness and our opposition has a greater understanding that they’re dealing with a contender. I don’t think it was like that and probably not for several decades and so I think that they did not expect what happened to happen, but it’s changed the conversation in a way that, you know, we’re not kidding, we’re not intimidated, we’re not pawns and make the paradigm shift or anticipate more of the same.”
What are your thoughts about the the development of AI and its impact on the Hollywood film industry? Do you think that even with the negotiations you’ve made that it will eventually replace the roles of actors, writers and filmmakers in the industry?
Fran Drescher: “Well, you know, I always say it can’t just be about what you can do, but what’s the right thing to do and I think that this double strike really put the line in the sand and everybody’s now on high alert that they can’t get away with any funny business, so that’s what made this negotiation so important and why we couldn’t really close the deal until the last piece was in place in terms of protecting our members and with consent and compensation and a limitation and also to make sure that this is an ongoing conversation that we must come together on semi-annually. I think that all of those huge strives in what was a blank page is now filled with protections and regulations and a new sensibility.”
What kind of regulations do you think should be made for AI, but also specifically in the film industry?
Fran Drescher: “Well, look, you know I mean I think that this is a groundbreaking start and as the technology changes, so will the contracts have to change, because people don’t always do the right thing. That’s why we have to have contracts and that’s why we have to have unions and I think that they now know that they’re going to be watched like a hawk. There’s language that protects us against deviations from them, and as things change, we will continue to change with them. It’s really important that we learn from past mistakes. In other industries that have been abusive and gotten away with it in all different areas, I just feel like what we do, what we offer and who we are, our essence is unique and what makes us performers, what makes us special is that it factors all the people that make their livelihood in this industry that fill the screen frame after frame, the edges of life — all of them. They are what makes the magic of movies. If anybody thinks that this is ever going to be replaced by technology and that’s going to be something that audiences will embrace, I think that on the one hand they won’t be allowed to do it and on the other hand they’ll realize that it’s fruitless to even try.”
Jon Bon Jovi (Grammy Award-Winning Frontman of Bon Jovi)
The music industry has changed massively over 40 years and especially in recent years due to technology like Artificial Intelligence (AI). How do you feel about AI being used to create new music that mimics your style, your voice and even your face like with deepfake technology?
Jon Bon Jovi: “I know it’s in the beginning stages and it’s only going to get better, which can technically make it more scary, but what I’d seen in the last year wasn’t a threat yet for Bon Jovi songs. You know, if I put in a ‘create a Bon Jovi lyric and let me see what I look like in AI’, I mean, the technology is not there yet, but I’m smart enough to know that it will be there soon. It can be influential or it may be dangerous. I think, you know, that is to be determined. I don’t think anyone knows what it’s going to do yet, because the computers are going to be smart. Whether or not it’s going to have the emotion that a true songwriter has when he does his best work is to be seen, but I certainly don’t count the computer out, so that’s the the part of me that is afraid of it, but I do think that AI is going to be incredibly helpful when it comes to medicine and science, so there are some great things to look forward to, you know, and on the other hand it’s scary when there’s a political campaign in America coming up or things like that — who knows what it’s going to do!”
Do you think that the use of AI should be regulated?
Jon Bon Jovi: “Yeah, you know, I think that for now I would like to see it regulated.”
Would you ever consider using AI yourself to create new music and to write new songs?
Jon Bon Jovi: “No, no…I’m not that lazy! No, that’s why when I tried it once, I said ‘oh, there’s nothing here’! I still believe in the human… I just think that the human touch matters.”
Kit Harington (Starred as ‘Jon Snow’ on ‘Game of Thrones’)
What is your opinion on the use of AI in thefilm industry and how do you feel, as an actor, about AI and deepfakes using yourface, voice or your persona?
Kit Harington: “I don’t really, at the moment, have an opinion about it. It’s not got good enough to be worried about it. People keep showing me AI images of stuff and I’m like: ‘it looks like crap!’. It doesn’t look good. You can tell it’s AI! No human behind it. There’s no life in the eyes. It’s a computer image. Just because it looks incredibly realistic, it doesn’t make it alive. It doesn’t compare in any way even close to what actors and creatives that are human who go through the human experience have. So, no, I don’t think it’s a threat like people think it is.”
You don’t think it will become a threat inthe future? Do you think it should beregulated more?
Kit Harington: “I think it would be stupid of our industry to start relying on AI to do things that humans do and if that’s the way our industry goes, I don’t really want to be part of it.”
Why do you think it would be stupid ofthe film industry to rely more on AI?
Kit Harington: “I just don’t think anything artificial can everreplicate human creativity no matter how much it tries, so if we sit down and enjoy watching films because you want to see the human experience, why would we sit down and watch an AI written script and AI simulation? Why would we do that? I think, you know, maybe they’ll use it in the right way for the right tools, but no, I think for me I don’t spend my time thinking about it because it’s not there yet and I don’t think it is very good.”
Does it bother youif someone maybe uses your face or yourvoice in particular through AI in anotherproject without your permission?
Kit Harington: “I mean…I’ll tell you about it when it happens!”
Don McLean — Grammy-nominated “American Pie” singer/songwriter
What do you think about the impact of AI on the music industry? Where do you see this going?
Don McLean: “Artificial Intelligence? Yeah, well, I think it’s been going on for many years. I don’t think there’s a record out there that’s made by a human being. You hear guitars and that. You hear guitars and pianos and you don’t hear pianos, you hear guitars and drums and bass and most of that’s computers. So that’s artificial intelligence. It’s been going on for a long time, but it’s just now reared its head as an entity and it’s starting to be a new form of technology that might be going all over. I think what it’s going to do is make life a pain in the ass, because everywhere you go, you’re going to have to do facial recognition and thumb recognition and you’re not going to know who’s who or what’s what. I recently had to pay the government lots of money, you know. I always do every year and now they want to make sure that it’s me, so I had to go through this whole process to expedite giving my government all this money, so they can use it on armaments and things that I hate and I couldn’t do it. I spent two days trying to answer all their questions to prove I was me, so what are you going to do about that and they want my money!”
Could you clarify that a bit further? What is it exactly that they want from you? Taxation?
Don McLean: “What do they want from me? Oh, I have to take my facial recognition and I have to sign stuff and I have to show them three different forms of identity and the telephone has to match to this and that. You know I don’t live in one house…I’ve got five homes, so if the phone doesn’t match, then boom! Back to square one. It was like just give them the money, okay, and I don’t care.”
Would you ever consider using AI to write new songs or create new music yourself?
Don McLean: “I have enough trouble using my own intelligence and if I can’t use my own intelligence I don’t want anything artificial! Why would I ever do that? I don’t care that much about Don McLean, you know. Suddenly, I can see people who are so decrepit and old and have so many problems that they’re faking it now and you have this fake version of yourself. That’s Orwellian — it’s ‘ 1984’.”
What do you think about people using deepfakes with your face, voice or your music style and people copying all of that from you with with AI?
Don McLean: “What I think is that it’s time to say goodbye when it’s time to say goodbye and it does doesn’t really matter, because you’re going to take everything I ever did and use Artificial Intelligence to make a new guy to do new things. I don’t have to participate. They have all the pieces they need. They have it all, you know, they have me going back 50 years. They have young Don, medium Don, old Don; they’ve got all the Dons. They’ve got all the records, they’ve got everything. They can do whatever they want — they have all the building blocks for that. They don’t need me participating now. I don’t need to put out some pathetic record where I can’t sing anymore and I’ve got them. I mean, I would feel like I have completely prostituted myself if I did that.”
Do you think that the use of AI in the music industry should be regulated to protect creativity and the work of musicians?
Don McLean: “I want to get paid — that’s all. I don’t want them touching my name, likeness or music without them paying me — that’s all. I created that. I decide who gets it. Nobody else. There’s always this new technology saying ‘oh his music should be free for everybody’. No, you know! You create something — it’s yours. You hold onto it and you get paid for that!”
Helle Thorning-Schmidt — Former Prime Minister of Denmark and current Co-Chair of Meta Oversight Board
With the development of deepfakes and AI, there are a lot of issues that have arisen from this technology. Recently, there was an issue of an actor’s face and his persona being used in harmful illegal content, like pornographic content of children, and there is also a lot of IP infringement of the faces of public figures and celebrities. Do you think that existing laws — and especially intellectual property laws — are sufficient to address the challenges that are being posed by deepfakes and AI?
Helle Thorning-Schmidt: “On the intellectual property, probably not. I don’t know a lot about that, that’s not my space, but probably not. It looks like we definitely do not have intellectual property rights respected as they should be. In terms of nudity and putting public figures’ faces on nudity and sexual content, it’s interesting you should ask that, because we’re actually dealing with two cases right now at Meta with our Oversight Board where we’re looking at two public figures — female public figures connected to sexualized nudity content — and we’re looking at those cases now and one of our advice to Meta is that they have to do much better in this space. They have to do much better in finding signals of non-consent. When they see this kind of content they have to be better at removing it quickly and they have to be equally good in all markets. We have a slight suspicion that they’re not doing this in the American Market perhaps as good as in the Indian market, so that’s what we’re asking Meta to do, and let’s not forget that these are public figures we’re talking about, but if an individual who does not have a big voice is not a public figure and gets portrayed in false nudity or false sexual pictures, that could have real life consequences for a young girl in India or Pakistan or wherever. It could have real life, very harmful consequences, so our advice to the matter would basically be that they have to be better in this space.”
Why do you think they’re doing it better in some countries than others?
Helle Thorning-Schmidt: “I think the content moderation is actually a little bit better in some markets than others and that’s what we want to look deeper into. You saw, for example, recently there was a nudity issue with Taylor Swift and that piece of nudity stayed on X for a very long time. It was shared and re-shared many, many times. It was removed from from Meta very quickly and that tells us a little bit about, not only the difference between X and Meta, but also that if something happens in the American Market with an American public figure, Meta has grown into becoming very efficient in removing that sort of content.”
What do you think are the most harmful consequences of AI and Technology like deep fakes from an ethical and societal perspective?
Helle Thorning-Schmidt: “Well, I think it’s a difficult question to answer because all these new technologies will also be amazing. I mean, AI is an amazing new technology that will help us in so many ways. It will also help us in fun ways to create content and create things. We’ve been looking at moderated content for years where it wasn’t harmful, so what I’m looking at here is that of course we have to react to the harmful consequences of new technology and, at the same time, we have to embrace new technology and use it for human purposes, so we must be able to keep two thoughts in our head at the same time that digital solutions and AI solutions can be amazing for humanity, but it can also create harmful content that we have to find a way to combat, so I don’t want to pick sides here. I want to have two thoughts in my head at the same time that you can have amazing great, consequences of AI and digital solutions, but also harmful consequences.”
If you could create a piece of legislation or a policy in regard to AI and things like deepfakes, what would you propose to governments and legislators?
Helle Thorning-Schmidt: “ I think the AI regulation coming out of the EU could be very meaningful and I really like this watermark that you have to put on content, so that you can’t manipulate it and I think the future is in that space where we where content creators are obliged to watermark their content and also social media platforms labeling AI moderated content that would be an enormous step in the right direction and that’s why I’m happy that Meta has taken a step in May to label AI content.”
Are you satisfied, from your political perspective and your tech perspective, with current frameworks and policies that have been made by the the EU?
Helle Thorning-Schmidt: “Yeah, I think the EU has made some great regulations in this space — both the Digital Services Act and the AI regulation — and I think you need regulators in this space, but the problem is that regulators can’t do everything, so you also need independent oversight boards to push platforms in other directions. You have to have the whole ecosystem change how content is moderated, so yes I’m happy with the regulations, but unfortunately regulations will never be enough either because regulations will actually not find that balancing point between Free Speech and other human rights and that’s what we’re dealing with every day, so we love Free Speech, but they also have to be balanced out against other human rights, I think.”
As a former Head of Government, what is your vision for the future when it concerns deepfakes, AI and all of these kinds of technologies while still preserving democratic values and and human rights and all of that?
Helle Thorning-Schmidt: “Content moderation, also including AI, is part of an ecosystem where you have regulators doing their bit, which I think they have done, and the EU tech companies have to step up and be more responsible also, because there’ll be new inventions all the time that tech companies have to understand and relate to. We need independent oversight of tech. I am surprised that Meta is the only company that has started to have independent oversight — and then you have to educate consumer users more, so this is what is part of this and also not try to think that we can find one solution that will fix all. This is about intellectual property, it’s about preserving truth and democracy, it’s about all actors taking responsibility, including political parties — and particularly candidates in elections — so there are so many factors that have to be pushed in order to create a safe space online where we use AI for certain things, but don’t let AI push us into a corner where AI is pushing pushing our democracy.”
Kevin Costner — Academy Award-Winning Actor
There is a massive evolution now in the film industry in terms of the use of technology like AI. How do you feel about others potentially imitating your persona, face or voice with the use of AI in filmmaking and do you think that actors like yourself should be protected from all of this happening like through IP laws and regulations?
Kevin Costner: “Yeah, I hope my work isn’t imitated or kind of lessened by AI. You know, I hope that people don’t take advantage of the things that have come out of my head and come out of other people’s heads that I elected to participate in. I just hope that, like in any technology, we find the good in it and we kind of, you know, step away from work that crosses a line. You know, I haven’t depended even on CG very much in my life. I kind of make things out there in these places that kind of still make you wonder if the places like this exist. Yeah, I think my work should be protected. I think it should be honoured in the course of business — if business is done and
someone benefits from it.”
Jamie Campbell-Bower — British Actor, Stranger Things, Harry Potter, The Twilight Saga
There is a massive evolution now in the film industry in terms of the use of technology like AI. How do you feel about others potentially imitating your persona, face or voice with the use of AI in filmmaking and do you think that actors like yourself should be protected from all of this happening like through IP laws and regulations?
Jamie Campbell-Bower: “I will say one thing, I mean, I think that for me in art, imperfection is really important. I find it with music as well and there is an imperfection in humanity, which brings a reality to it. That’s all I’m going to say on that, you know, I mean I think obviously technology does help us to do some incredible things and to broaden stories and to broaden scope and to broaden scale, but at the end of the day, you know, we do still need human beings in whatever capacity of work we’re talking about here.”
Sienna Miller — British-American Actress, Anatomy of a Scandal, American Sniper
There is a massive evolution now in the film industry in terms of the use of technology like AI. How do you feel about others potentially imitating your persona, face or voice with the use of AI in filmmaking and do you think that actors like yourself should be protected from all of this happening like through IP laws and regulations?
Sienna Miller: “Yeah, I think they’ve got to regulate it. Obviously, the whole concept of AI is really uncharted territory and the lid has been lifted on something that I think people really don’t understand the magnitude of…There are far more troubling things about it in my mind than us and our likeness being replicated, but yeah of course as an actor you feel like you need you need ownership over yourself and I think that is a lot of what people are really trying to fight to legislate, like with the Scarlett Johansson and OpenAI clash recently.”
Sam Worthington — British-Australian Actor, Avatar, Terminator Salvation
There is a massive evolution now in the film industry in terms of the use of technology like AI. How do you feel about others potentially imitating your persona, face or voice with the use of AI in filmmaking and do you think that actors like yourself should be protected from all of this happening like through IP laws and regulations?
Sam Worthington: “Well, my relationship with it is a bit different with it, because I starred in Avatar where we’re kind of in the system. They’ve got a lot of us in that system already and I think, you know, it is regulated to some respect in the sense out of respect with the filmmakers that you work with, because they’re not going to use you to an advantage just for their own monetary gain. If they’re going to use anything of me in that work, they’re going to discuss and we’ll talk about permission, so I think it just comes down to common sense and common courtesy.”
Luke Wilson (American Actor, Legally Blonde, Blue Streak)and Isabelle Fuhrman (American Actress, Orphan, The Hunger Games)
There is a massive evolution now in the film industry in terms of the use of technology like AI. How do you feel about others potentially imitating your persona, face or voice with the use of AI in filmmaking and do you think that actors like yourself should be protected from all of this happening like through IP laws and regulations?
Isabelle Fuhrman: “I think I’ve thought about this quite a lot, because it actually really kind of freaks me out, but also at the same time, it’s like there are things that are just naturally happening in terms of technology and that’s where things are going. I think that it should be something that, as an actor, you own kind of like yourself and it is something that you can pass down to your family, so that way you know that somebody that you love has it and actually thinks about your wellbeing and….have it like an archive.”
Luke Wilson: “I’ll leave you my archive…”
Isabelle Fuhrman: “No, but like where you own it and it’s your likeness that you can decide what you want to do with it and, you know, what you can be like. I don’t think that the virtual Luke Wilson wants to do the shaving cream commercial, but I would love to advertise for this!”
Luke Wilson: “I will take that shaving cream commercial! No, it’s an interesting question! I really haven’t given it much thought…I mean, I’ll probably think about it when it’s too late and some company already owns my image…!”
Originally published at Mashable on July 26, 2024.
